Guest Post: Gena’s Raw Response
If you read Melissa’s blog Fitness NYC, you might already know her friend Gena (Jen-na), who wrote two informative posts found (here and here) about her approach to her raw lifestyle. These posts inspired Melissa to try eating raw for one day and made me want to try a raw foods challenge here on Hangry Pants. Gena read the article I posted yesterday about raw foods diets. Below is her response. Thank you Gena.
______________________________________________________________________
Hello all!
Gena here. I’m a young, high-raw vegan. This means that my diet consists of mostly raw fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, seaweeds, and occasional sprouted grains. I also eat cooked and steamed root vegetables. I’ve been a vegan for some time now, and raw for the last six months. Since “going raw” I’ve experienced countless benefits and improvements in my health; you can read more about my journey here and here.
The lovely Ms. Heather has offered me a chance to respond to Melanie Thomassian’s article on the raw foods diet, and I’m glad; though I think it’s smart to welcome all opinions on all ways of eating, I think this particular piece has some major logical and argumentative flaws. But I should begin with a few disclaimers.
1) I do not eat a mainstream diet. Mine is not a typical or conventional approach to food. This said, I believe that ALL people can benefit by adding raw foods to their diets, whatever those diets may be, and by following some of the principals of raw eating.
2) I’m not a scientist. I’ll respond to some of the claims about the science of raw eating here, but I claim no expertise.
This article is a genuine attempt to make sense of the raw food diet. And I understand that impulse: to the majority of Americans, even health-conscious ones, eating raw is a radical idea. We’re socially conditioned to equate a “hot meal” with nourishment, and to embrace cooking as both a means of making food taste its best and also as a means of social unity, of tradition, of culinary creativity. So the thought that preparing our food without heating it is understandably off-putting to most people. Additionally, eating raw excludes most of the foods that most of us are used to eating: processed foods of all kinds, hot grains, pasteurized dairy, cooked animal flesh. I don’t blame you if it seems crazy to you from afar: it once seemed crazy to me, too.
Part of the reason it seemed crazy is because I couldn’t wrap my mind around the science involved. The central claim (which Melanie Thomassian attacks) is that eating raw preserves many of the naturally occurring enzymes that help in digestion of food, and that it also preserves the vitamin content of most foods, which is (and this is true) often reduced by as much as 70% through the cooking process.
As far as I know, there is no solid science to prove the enzyme claim. And so I can’t totally refute Melanie’s disagreement. This said, I found her dismissive and condescending tone sadly indicative of the attitude with which most people view raw foods. Melanie is no different from most people in seeing the raw diet as a fringe movement, unmoored to scientific proof. But, also like most people, she’s clearly never tried the diet for herself.
And this is where science—in my opinion—bows to experience. What I always tell people about raw foods is that you can’t knock ‘em till you’ve tried ‘em. I was dubious about raw foods when I began my journey, too. But the evidence, ultimately, was in the way I felt after eating high raw. My IBS, which had been chronic since my early teens, all but disappeared. I immediately ceased getting symptoms of PMS and menstrual cramps. My seasonal allergies stopped. My moods became more even-keeled. My skin became brighter and rosier, and I had more energy. My cravings for sugar were lessened. This is all really good stuff. So, when it comes to raw eating, I tend to think that the proof is in the pudding. Check out any of the numerous raw foods resources or blogs out there. You’ll meet countless individuals who found, as I did, that seeing is believing.
But I guess it’s a good thing to respond to the science, right? So let’s try:
“However, one of the main problems with the raw food diet is that the philosophy behind it is scientifically flawed, and makes little sense biologically.
Here are some of the outlandish claims raw foodists make:
#1 Cooking food destroys its natural enzymes. While it is true to say that cooking can destroy some of the enzymes, most food enzymes are destroyed, or rendered inactive, by the acidity of the stomach anyway. So, not cooking food doesn’t save it from this fate. The simple fact is that plant enzymes are not needed for human digestion. Your digestive system is highly sophisticated at producing its own enzymes, which are specific to the food you eat. In fact even if the plant enzymes did survive the digestive enzymes, your body will still produce it’s own enzymes.”
OK. There’s an inherent contradiction in calling any claim “outlandish” and then acknowledging it as at least partially true. But setting this aside, there is at least some science to prove that cooking food does destroy enzymes (and vitamins, and minerals). As for Melanie’s faith in our digestive systems, it’s well-intentioned, but not totally sound. Any gastroenterologist will tell you (and a few have told me) that most of our digestive systems have been compromised by decades of eating crap. The standard American diet—full of refined sugar, processed food, excessive protein, hormones, fillers, and antibiotics—has wreaked havoc on our stomachs. And so most of us are less capable of producing those enzymes that the author claims are so readily available.
In a perfect world, yes, all of our digestive systems would run like magic. But (and I say this as someone who has suffered a lifetime of digestive problems), most of us can and would benefit from the experience of eating enzyme rich food in a totally unprocessed state.
“#2 Cooked food is toxic. This is an idiotic theory – if cooked food was toxic, the majority of the population would have been wiped out a long time ago.”
Can’t argue with this one, kids. The claim has always made me raise my eyebrows. But that doesn’t change the fact that my experience eating food has made me feel cleaner, lighter, etc.
#3 White blood cells flood the stomach after eating cooked food Apparently this is because they are trying to fight the poison that has just entered your body.
Under normal circumstances, a healthy body will not experience white blood cells entering the stomach – the stomach is simply not open to the vascular system.
This theory is not supported in any way, shape, or form by the medical literature.”
Again, I have no rebuttal.
#4 Cooked food is unrecognizable to the body. Again this is a complete misunderstanding of the digestive system – it assumes that the digestive system can distinguish between different foods, and their method of cooking. It doesn’t matter whether you eat raw meat, or cooked meat, it is treated just the same. The digestive enzymes break it down, and the resulting molecules are absorbed. Whatever can’t be used will pass right through the body.
Hmmm. Raw food is the consumption of vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds in their living, uncooked, unpasteurized state. Is it SO crazy to suggest that the body has an easier time recognizing unprocessed food (whole plants, nuts, and fruits) than it does cooked grains, pasteurized dairy, and the like? Call me a lunatic, but this seems like common sense to me. Wouldn’t an apple or a walnut be more digestible (which is some of what raw foodists mean when they say “recognizable”) than processed food, full of soy isolates, chemical flavorings and colorings? How about meat/eggs/dairy that have been suffused with hormones, fillers, and antibiotics? To me, this one is a no brainer. Of course raw food is more easily assimilated into our bodies—not to mention a whole lot healthier—than food that has been processed.
#5 Raw food is more “natural.” Raw foodists claim this is one of the most natural diets around, however you need to ask yourself why such a “natural” diet runs the risks of being deficient in B12, zinc, iron, and omega-3 fatty acids, amongst other things?”
With regards to raw foods being more natural, see the response to #4.
As for the possibility of deficiencies in the raw food diet, this is where I take most issue with Melanie’s piece. To claim that the raw foods diet is unnatural because it can, if followed carelessly, result in nutritional deficiency, is ridiculous. ANY diet—from omnivorism to veganism to raw foodism—can leave you with deficiencies if you’re sloppy, underfed, or not thinking about nutrition. Of course you can end up with low zinc, iron, or fatty acids eating raw foods; you can also end up lacking those things just as easily eating cooked and omnivorous foods. Case in point: I was anemic and deficient in B vitamins for four years—and these were my early, pescatarian years, when I was still eating fish, dairy, and eggs. It was after I began life as a vegan that my anemia and deficiencies disappeared. I attribute this to the increase in greens that a raw diet encourages, as well as the addition of such a wide array of vegetables to my daily meals.
Because regardless of what anyone says, it’s undeniable that veggies remain the most nutrient rich foods out there. And if those veggies happen to have retained most of their vitamin content from being uncooked, so much the better! It always amuses me when a co-worker who is munching on an insipid turkey sandwich accuses me of not eating enough lunch. As if my enormous salad, stuffed with veggies, avocadoes, and nuts, is less nutritious than her sad little assembly of lunchmeat, topped with a single slice of tomato and lettuce. Or when I’m asked accusatorily: “what will you feed your children?” Assuming I raise them mostly or wholly vegan, I will have much less reason to worry about the vitamins they’re getting than the many Americans who are stuffing their kids with chips and lunchmeats and dairy products full of hormones and chemicals.
OK, I’ll get off the soapbox. My point is that people, even nutritionists, are mighty quick to point fingers at raw foodists for not getting enough nutrients, when in fact it’s the majority of the cooked-food-eating, soda-guzzling, and omnivorous population that’s not getting enough of what they need from unprocessed, plant based whole foods. And it’s unfair for raw foodism (or other diets seen as highly “restrictive”) to be criticized as long as its followers are eating with consciousness and awareness of their dietary needs. Potential pitfalls of the diet result from the approach of the person eating it—not the diet itself. And in my experience, raw foodists are among the most nutrition-savvy and health-minded people I know—people who are certain to get the nutrients they need.
As for Steve Pavlina’s experience: first of all, this quote is taken out of context. Steve admits that many of his attempts at eating raw have been hindered by lack of education or by the fact that he made his food prep overly complicated and exhausting. The blog also details all of the benefits he ultimately stumbled on (Steve is mostly raw today). This aside, my own raw foods transition was nothing like it. I did experience some mild detox symptoms, but they very quickly gave way to euphoria and boundless energy. Each body is different.
Sure, it’s silly to get extreme or restrictive with any diet. Which is why I make room in mine for cooked root veggies, steamed veggies, and dark chocolate. This means that I can enjoy the benefit of, say, the added lycopene that a cooked tomato offers (though I should also note that this is one of the rare examples of a food that is more nutrient-rich post-cooking), and all of the benefits of raw food, too. I find that a very high raw diet (90% or so) works for me, but I think that focusing on a number is silly: the main thing is to incorporate more raw, unprocessed food into every day life. Remember: the proof is in the pudding. Before you imagine that eating raw will be too crazy, or too hard, give it a shot. You might be surprised at how good you feel. And isn’t well-being all the evidence we need?
February 19th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Until reading some of your recent posts I’d never considered the raw food movement as something for me, or really considered it at all. I think it’s really cool that you’re covering this topic because it’s so foreign to a lot of us! I’m interested to hear more.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Gena – I take some issue with your rebuttals, as you are using extremes to back up your points. Plenty of people do not eat only processed foods. There is a whole range of people who eat whole, unprocessed foods who choose to cook them because that’s how they like to eat them. Even just thinking of all the people I know, the majority of people don’t subside on a diet of processed, chemically ladden foods.
I’m not trying to put down your choice to eat a mostly raw diet. I think people should do what works for them and their bodies. But your response at times is guilty of the same tone as the article. I appreciate that you are passionate about the topic, but if you want to refute something you find in written in a condesending tone, you shouldn’t do it in the same fashion yourself.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Thanks for sharing!
February 19th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
That was really informative! I am not raw, nor do I wish to be, but I do try to incorporate a lot of raw fruits & raw or steamed veggies into my life, and definitely appreciate the benefit that has brought to my digestive system.
Thank you for this very balanced response.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Thanks for posting this! I also don’t think I’d ever do the raw thing as a lifestyle, but I do know eating raw fruits, vegetables, and nuts makes me feel really healthy. Who doesn’t love a giant salad? (well…a lot of people, I guess…)
Very interesting to hear opinions from someone who isn’t 100% die-hard raw (as I think many of the raw food writers are). I think it makes Gena’s ratioanle much more relatable.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Wonderful guest post, Gena!!
February 19th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
I’d still never be able to do the raw food thing, but this was def. interesting!
February 19th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Very interesting post. I think each article went from one extreme to the other with no in between. For me, what it comes down to is personal choice. I take no issue with what others decide to put into their bodies….as long as they’re happy all is well! Thanks for posting such a provocative post!
February 19th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Hi Marianne,
I appreciate your point: not everyone eats a junk diet, of course, especially not people who frequent nutrition blogs. But I wanted to fight fire with fire a bit (i.e., rebut with some of the cheekiness the author espoused) and make the point that raw foodists are prone to attacks about the very topic (nutrition) that they love most. And there are many people out there — not the community of readers here — who do eat a very processed diet, and perhaps we should redirect concerns about deficiencies in that direction. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for the read.
Gena
February 19th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
loved this as well. Im not going to go raw whole hog (rimshot?) but really liked all the insights and tips as Im more likely to integrate some of this into the way my family eats now.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Great response! I really enjoyed this. I would love to do a raw foods challenge one day but first I need to try vegetarian and all that… gotta do it step by step
February 19th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Hey Sagan!
I actually know a bunch of raw foodists who went from being omnivores to raw, or semi-raw. At the end of the day, you shouldn’t feel pressure to cut out foods you love — just focus on adding more raw foods that appeal to you. Take your time, have fun. Thanks for reading!!
Gena
February 19th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Very interesting, intriguing post. Thanks Gena/Heather! I’ve dabbled in Raw foods, and I really appreciate your feedback, and first hand experience! Being a vegan, I’ve encountered many a person telling me how “nutritionally deficient” I will be, yadda yadda yadda, so I can very much appreciate your place! I really love your answer to #4.
Thanks for this, fun, informative guest post! Way cool!
-Caroline
February 19th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Very informative! Great post!
February 19th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
interesting! thanks for the guest post!
February 19th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
great guest post!!!
February 19th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Thanks for this guest post Heather and Gena! Raw foodists totally intrigue me. I love reading about their diets and changes they have noticed in their bodies.
Gena, you make a really good point about people knocking your diet for not being high in certain nutrients while they snack on white bread sandwiches and sugar laden sodas. Very good point indeed!
February 19th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
heather- thanks for bringing in gena to share her story with us.
gena- what an inspiring and interesting post. it is so nice to read about a way of life you are so passionate about.. i am definitely intrigued…
February 20th, 2009 at 12:18 am
very interesting! thanks gena
February 20th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Excellent post, thoroughly enjoyed all of it
Cheers!
Kristen
February 20th, 2009 at 7:09 am
[...] The raw food diet is definitely a much debated topic, and this morning I was reminded of this fact when I read a response to my article from Gena, who wrote a guest post over at Hangry Pants. [...]
February 20th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Thanks for posting this. It is very informative and can probably help some people. I used to try and incoorporate raw foods in to my diet as much as possible, although I wouldn’t be able to ever eat only these. Sadly, I can’t even eat veggies anymore because of my GI problems…
February 20th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Love Gena’s points, there is no right way for everyone to eat. I know personally I could never be a raw eater, but I think it’s admirable who those who can. Great guest post!
February 20th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Eating raw vegan sounded CRAZY to me at first too. The proof was in the pudding for sure. Gena did a good job of explaining her position. I always wonder why some people get so bent out of shape about the idea of eating raw–why all the science battling, trying to prove it’s not good for you? Let’s save that kind of arguing for talking about schools that serve soda or Americans who eat at McDonald’s 4 times a week. Someone wants to eat raw veggies…good for them!
February 20th, 2009 at 11:08 am
[...] (2) The Raw Foods debate continues. Please read Melanie’s response to Gena’s guest post. [...]
February 20th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I’m old enough to remember when this “diet” was all the rage in the 1960’s. Funny to see stuff come back.
I’m not aware of any of the raw foodies from back then living to be 120 or anything. But still, fruits and veggies are a great thing. Eat up!
February 20th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
really great post by gena
February 20th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
FASCINATING. I’m so intimidated by the idea of being even high-raw, but what really resonates with me is making a point of trying to incorporate as many raw, whole foods into daily diet as possible. It becomes so much more approachable when you think of it in terms of what you can add to what you love, not what you CAN’T have as a matter of principle or whathaveyou.
February 20th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I always feel better on days i eat more raw fruits and veggies than i days I eat cooked dishes… no question.
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:52 am
Melanie
Cooked food is toxic. No, it doesn’t kill us immediately. And, no, our ancestors didn’t ‘die out’.
Toxins in cooked food have a CUMULATIVE effect.
Acrylamides caused by grilling, roasting, baking etc have now been linked with all sorts of cancers. Scientific fact.
Carcinogens are produced by heated fat. Scientific fact.
No, we don’t all fall down dead after eating cooked food. Cooked food kills us PREMATURELY (with great suffering) in thousands of ways. Cancer, heart disease etc etc.
Having skim-read over your article, thought I should pick up on that one at least!
February 22nd, 2009 at 4:46 am
Thank you for this article.
Having an interest in nutrition myself I am constantly learning new things and at one time shared your perspective on the raw food diet until I was asked to look into it further. I have come to realize that nutritional science is far too complex for us to comprehend. No nutrients ever exist in isolation in the human body yet almost all testing on nutrients is done in isolation. Can we ever expect to understand nutrition using science. Is there an easier and better way?
Here are a few questions that someone asked me to consider which made me look at things a little differently.
1) Do any creatures on our planet other than us have huge debates over what they should eat?
2) Do they need science to make sure they are getting enough of this and that nutrient?
3) Do any other animals cook their food?
4) Are other animals ridden with heart disease,cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, arthritis etc…?
5) Why do the animals that we have as pets get plagued with the same diseases we do (cancer, arthritis etc..)?
6) Are humans the only creatures that repeatedly drink the milk of another animal? Is it necessary for our health? Is it more detrimental than beneficial?
7) Are raw foods more nutritious than cooked foods?
Can we do better than nature or that which is natural. Is it natural to cook our food? Are we the exception as humans? Why?
As a dietician I’m sure you will want to present the best facts on both sides, so I have included a link for you to do a little more research which you might find interesting.
If you are inclined to read more on the science side of raw foods please check out this link which I just found that opened my eyes to raw and cooked foods: http://www.rawguru.com/science.html
February 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 pm
[...] So, we’re entering Week 2 of the Raw Foods Challenge. Although I wasn’t intentionally eating raw foods last week, I found myself taking note whenever I ate raw fruits or vegetables. Last week I also tried to learn a bit more about Raw Foods (and convey that information to Mark). I have a couple cook books that I got from the library, some great advice in comments and of course, Gena’s Guest Post. [...]
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:43 pm
[...] Gena – Eats raw and does not like onions or garlic. [...]
September 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
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